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	<title>Comments on: Violent Indonesia?</title>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=dde008072b6c2a36c7e1d49423f3fa8a.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fdde008072b6c2a36c.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' />By:  Mulia</title>
		<link>http://www.pelopor.nl/2008/violent-indonesia/comment-page-1/#comment-2163</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=dde008072b6c2a36c7e1d49423f3fa8a.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fdde008072b6c2a36c.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' /> Mulia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 08:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pelopor.nl/?p=258#comment-2163</guid>
		<description>@Colson: lol. don&#039;t forget to ask Karen Armstrong to be the supervisor. But i suspicious that the conclusion will be as simple as; Because it&#039;s the nicest scapegoat and from time to time, we just need to blame on something. :p</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Colson: lol. don&#8217;t forget to ask Karen Armstrong to be the supervisor. But i suspicious that the conclusion will be as simple as; Because it&#8217;s the nicest scapegoat and from time to time, we just need to blame on something. :p</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=defd57382ede5cbff795c406833f5cf8.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fdefd57382ede5cbff.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' />By:  colson</title>
		<link>http://www.pelopor.nl/2008/violent-indonesia/comment-page-1/#comment-2162</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=defd57382ede5cbff795c406833f5cf8.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fdefd57382ede5cbff.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' /> colson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@:
Ladies &amp; Gentlemen,

Thank you for all the additional information and interpretation. Indeed you provided me with the kind of background I was looking for. Ironically it confirms the wisdom of &quot;the more you know, the better you know, you know nothing&quot;. 

Indonesia seems to be enigmatic in many ways. Which of course is not unlike most complex societies. And is one of the reasons to love it. For sure, on the face of it, the country is vast, complicated and sometimes totally incomprehensible to outsiders (and just hard to understand even for insiders I guess). I wonder for instance whether religion furthers social cohesion in the country or is it quite the opposite: is it centrifugal and disruptive? There&#039;s not clearcut answer here either, I suppose.

If I were young, ambitious and studying political sciences however, the situation would make my choice of the thesis easy: &quot;Why is it that specifically religion is at the focus of political conflicts in this modern developing country&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@:<br />
Ladies &amp; Gentlemen,</p>
<p>Thank you for all the additional information and interpretation. Indeed you provided me with the kind of background I was looking for. Ironically it confirms the wisdom of &#8220;the more you know, the better you know, you know nothing&#8221;. </p>
<p>Indonesia seems to be enigmatic in many ways. Which of course is not unlike most complex societies. And is one of the reasons to love it. For sure, on the face of it, the country is vast, complicated and sometimes totally incomprehensible to outsiders (and just hard to understand even for insiders I guess). I wonder for instance whether religion furthers social cohesion in the country or is it quite the opposite: is it centrifugal and disruptive? There&#8217;s not clearcut answer here either, I suppose.</p>
<p>If I were young, ambitious and studying political sciences however, the situation would make my choice of the thesis easy: &#8220;Why is it that specifically religion is at the focus of political conflicts in this modern developing country&#8221;?</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=289d5bfdf77b04b5e7b5ff4f0ce1e58e.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2F289d5bfdf77b04b5e.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' />By:  Ari Tamat</title>
		<link>http://www.pelopor.nl/2008/violent-indonesia/comment-page-1/#comment-2160</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=289d5bfdf77b04b5e7b5ff4f0ce1e58e.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2F289d5bfdf77b04b5e.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' /> Ari Tamat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, Indonesians love a good cockfight. 
I think the political squabbles between these different groups are less relevant internationally than the fact that the government showed its mettle and cracked down on a criminal &quot;religious&quot; gang which had some political support from conservatives. Another takeaway is that even though many Indonesian Muslims do not agree with the Ahmadi interpretation of their religion, they are getting tired of violent and radical groups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Indonesians love a good cockfight.<br />
I think the political squabbles between these different groups are less relevant internationally than the fact that the government showed its mettle and cracked down on a criminal &#8220;religious&#8221; gang which had some political support from conservatives. Another takeaway is that even though many Indonesian Muslims do not agree with the Ahmadi interpretation of their religion, they are getting tired of violent and radical groups.</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=3ee2462938df5764b5ac858fdf6acce8.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2F3ee2462938df5764b.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' />By:  sufehmi</title>
		<link>http://www.pelopor.nl/2008/violent-indonesia/comment-page-1/#comment-2153</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=3ee2462938df5764b5ac858fdf6acce8.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2F3ee2462938df5764b.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' /> sufehmi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pelopor.nl/?p=258#comment-2153</guid>
		<description>It may be impossible to find out the exact background of this incident. There are contradicting claims from all sides -- FPI claiming to be provoked (its leader was photographed by Tempo trying to calm down his comrade), AKKBB claiming to be the victim which includes children (refuted by FPI, showing the children are theirs), Police official interviewed wondering why AKKBB changed their demonstration location, the alleged connection of FPI to generals and other high-ranking officials, AKKBB accusing gov&#039;t and FPI of taking down Ahmadiyyah&#039;s freedom of belief, which only refuted days later by bigger number of parties and clarified as a case of existing belief&#039;s (islam) hijacking by Ahmadiyyahs (even &lt;a href=&quot;http://republika.co.id/koran_detail.asp?id=336837&amp;kat_id=49&amp;kat_id1=&amp;kat_id2=&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NU rather dismissively said that Ahmadiyyah has never been Islam&lt;/a&gt;), and so on.

But it did happen at a rather convenient time, when the government was being criticized heavily for failing to keep the fuel price stable.

The impact seems echoed quite internationally, with US embassy also commented about it. But it was then pretty much told to &quot;shut up &amp; mind your own business&quot; by several (irritated) parties. (seems like people are still unhappy about the NAMRU business)

So yeah, like many other cases, it&#039;s not really clear. There are many angles to this incident.

Anyway - It&#039;s always interesting around here (if you have a rather morbid definition of &quot;interesting&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may be impossible to find out the exact background of this incident. There are contradicting claims from all sides &#8212; FPI claiming to be provoked (its leader was photographed by Tempo trying to calm down his comrade), AKKBB claiming to be the victim which includes children (refuted by FPI, showing the children are theirs), Police official interviewed wondering why AKKBB changed their demonstration location, the alleged connection of FPI to generals and other high-ranking officials, AKKBB accusing gov&#8217;t and FPI of taking down Ahmadiyyah&#8217;s freedom of belief, which only refuted days later by bigger number of parties and clarified as a case of existing belief&#8217;s (islam) hijacking by Ahmadiyyahs (even <a href="http://republika.co.id/koran_detail.asp?id=336837&amp;kat_id=49&amp;kat_id1=&amp;kat_id2=" rel="nofollow">NU rather dismissively said that Ahmadiyyah has never been Islam</a>), and so on.</p>
<p>But it did happen at a rather convenient time, when the government was being criticized heavily for failing to keep the fuel price stable.</p>
<p>The impact seems echoed quite internationally, with US embassy also commented about it. But it was then pretty much told to &#8220;shut up &amp; mind your own business&#8221; by several (irritated) parties. (seems like people are still unhappy about the NAMRU business)</p>
<p>So yeah, like many other cases, it&#8217;s not really clear. There are many angles to this incident.</p>
<p>Anyway &#8211; It&#8217;s always interesting around here (if you have a rather morbid definition of &#8220;interesting&#8221;)</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=dde008072b6c2a36c7e1d49423f3fa8a.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fdde008072b6c2a36c.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' />By:  mulia</title>
		<link>http://www.pelopor.nl/2008/violent-indonesia/comment-page-1/#comment-2151</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=dde008072b6c2a36c7e1d49423f3fa8a.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fdde008072b6c2a36c.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' /> mulia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 07:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pelopor.nl/?p=258#comment-2151</guid>
		<description>&quot;What is the exact background of the incidents&quot;

a guy in one of my mailing list told me that this is just a camouflage to distract people from fuel price increase incident.

and yes, Indonesia is like a puzzle. i believe earlier we were geographically set together. but over centuries, the earth quake shook the plate and change Indonesia to be the largest archipelagic country in the world. 

so here we are now, a puzzle of 17670 island.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What is the exact background of the incidents&#8221;</p>
<p>a guy in one of my mailing list told me that this is just a camouflage to distract people from fuel price increase incident.</p>
<p>and yes, Indonesia is like a puzzle. i believe earlier we were geographically set together. but over centuries, the earth quake shook the plate and change Indonesia to be the largest archipelagic country in the world. </p>
<p>so here we are now, a puzzle of 17670 island.</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=289d5bfdf77b04b5e7b5ff4f0ce1e58e.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2F289d5bfdf77b04b5e.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' />By:  Ari Tamat</title>
		<link>http://www.pelopor.nl/2008/violent-indonesia/comment-page-1/#comment-2149</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=289d5bfdf77b04b5e7b5ff4f0ce1e58e.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2F289d5bfdf77b04b5e.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' /> Ari Tamat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 05:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is significant because it is the first time that the government has cracked down against the small but high-profile FPI group, which hitherto has acted with impunity. The immense public support for the action may be more of a sign that they are tired of these thugs, than that they support Ahmadiyah. Maybe only a small victory for religious tolerance in Indonesia, but a significant victory for law and order in Jakarta.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is significant because it is the first time that the government has cracked down against the small but high-profile FPI group, which hitherto has acted with impunity. The immense public support for the action may be more of a sign that they are tired of these thugs, than that they support Ahmadiyah. Maybe only a small victory for religious tolerance in Indonesia, but a significant victory for law and order in Jakarta.</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=c5fc2d613e3669c43901208ccc66b93c.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fc5fc2d613e3669c43.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' />By:  Finally Woken</title>
		<link>http://www.pelopor.nl/2008/violent-indonesia/comment-page-1/#comment-2146</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=c5fc2d613e3669c43901208ccc66b93c.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fc5fc2d613e3669c43.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' /> Finally Woken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>When it happens in Jakarta, it becomes a nationwide concern. Unfortunately, many times the news reports the incident like it&#039;s all over the country. Luckily, and hopefully, FPI stays local and doesn&#039;t spread its hatred to other provinces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When it happens in Jakarta, it becomes a nationwide concern. Unfortunately, many times the news reports the incident like it&#8217;s all over the country. Luckily, and hopefully, FPI stays local and doesn&#8217;t spread its hatred to other provinces.</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fd41d8cd98f00b204e.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' />By:  Asking more from the media &#171; Unspun</title>
		<link>http://www.pelopor.nl/2008/violent-indonesia/comment-page-1/#comment-2142</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e.jpg&amp;s=30&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pelopor.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fd41d8cd98f00b204e.png' width='30' height='30' alt='Wavatar' /> Asking more from the media &#171; Unspun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 15:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
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